Video Games
Interview with West of Loathing Developers, Zack Johnson and Kevin Simmons
Published
7 years agoon
I recently got the opportunity to talk with Zack Johnson and Kevin Simmons, from Asymmetric, the developers behind Kingdom of Loathing and West of Loathing. Zack and Kevin were gracious enough to speak a bit about how West of Loathing came to be and a bit about the process behind some of the game’s brilliant design.
NH: So where did the idea of West of Loathing come from?
ZJ: In 2003, I made Kingdom of Loathing and it took off, and I hired up some people to help maintain it and operate it for many, many years. And it like all MMOs, had its initial bump in popularity and people play and it kind of slowly went into decline. It’s still doing fine financially but it will never do as well as it had been and we needed to do something new, so we decided 3 years ago to try out a single player game in the same art style and writing style as KoL so we could play to our strengths as a studio so we didn’t have to learn to operate in an entirely different tone or an entirely new graphic style.
We did some prototyping to see if it was going to be practical to get my art into a 3D diorama and that worked pretty well so we had to hire a unity programmer and a composer and sound design person because those were all things that we didn’t have any sort of internal people to handle. Then we spent about 2 years making it.
NH: I wanted to ask why you guys chose the Wild West as the place to expand the KoL universe.
ZJ: Yeah so, Kingdom of Loathing just sort of became everything over time. It didn’t really have much of a real specific fantasy identity, to begin with. We explored new ideas and we ended up making it into a hodgepodge of every genre so for [West of Loathing] just to make it a bit less intimidating to new players who weren’t familiar with our stuff already led us to want to constrain the genre a little bit.
I sort of always wanted to make an RPG in the Wild West setting because I feellike it’s just as good as the medieval fantasy for that kind of gameplay. It has the same good versus evil tropes and you know the comprehensible level of technology that you don’t have to explain what a gun is, everyone knows how it works. Also, hats because we were finally able to show the player character with their hats on so we wanted cool hats.
NH: More specifically, how did you guys go about creating the puzzles in West of Loathing? There were a lot of puzzles and yet they were all really clever and varied.
KS: They were organically driven in a lot of ways. Sometimes we’d have a puzzle in mind and that would sort of spawn the generation of a particular area or design. We would just simulate an area and we would realize the need of something more to be going on there. Zack would say, “Hey someone should make a puzzle for this and someone would come in and do that. We actually had a lot more puzzles than we ended putting into the game.
There were a few places where we got to where there maybe should have been a puzzle but we didn’t have a great idea so we would just come up with something funny instead. We didn’t want to force things to be puzzles when we didn’t want them to be. It was sort of a very important choice because it’s way better to have puzzles fit into the context of things rather than try to shoehorn stuff in just because we feel like [a puzzle] should be there. I don’t know why I’m saying no “simple” puzzle is better than a puzzle. I love puzzles.
ZJ: No puzzle is better than a bad puzzle.
KS: Yeah.
NH: I could definitely feel that discernment while I was playing. There were no really infuriating puzzles.
ZJ: That was definitely our aim. Not to be infuriating, at all.
KS: It was also really helpful that there were several of us that were doing puzzle design. Zach would design puzzles as he created the whole skeletal framework for a lot of the zones, so a lot of the bandit interactions that were sort of straightforward that our sort of fast designs. Some of the more devious narrative based stuff like the whole ghost puzzle and bureaucracy puzzle were Rick’s design and the old school, “decipher this code” kind of puzzles are the ones I tended to add. A lot of them are pretty well hidden.
NH: So really everyone was involved in a lot of different elements of design. Who was doing the writing?
ZJ: Yeah that was split about 80% Rick and Conner and maybe 20% me. But it’s all in this house style we’ve developed over the years and years of working on KoL. With West of Loathing not so much, but with KoL we can go back and find stuff from five years ago and it’s pretty hard to remember which one of us wrote it. With West of Loathing because I had so many jobs to do it made sense to delegate.
NH: I played West of Loathing and then played Kingdom of Loathing and it was interesting to watch how the voice was sort of the same between the two games but then in West of Loathing it had this really high level of refinement.
KS: As you’re playing Kingdom of Loathing, you’ll go from seeing something we wrote fifteen years ago to something we wrote a month ago and they’re not presented like that so there’s no indication for the player for which things are really old and which things aren’t so, I hope we’ve gotten better at our job. From a quality and a game design standpoint, West of Loathing is just more approachable and gets less in the way of the player than KoL.
NH: I also wanted to ask about the navigation system in West of Loathing. It was kind of this in-between of open world and overworld in a really clever way.
ZJ: Kingdom of Loathing is all random encounters. You go somewhere and something random happens there. There’s not a strong sense of place. But we didn’t want the game to be some sort of maze so we definitely needed some sort of overworld.
We went back and forth a lot about how players would discover new locations and how many places we put in front of you and how unique we wanted everyone’s playthrough to be. I’m pretty pleased with the place we arrived at. Do you have anything to add, Kevin?
KS: No, I feel like that is what I feel is true with the inhabiting the space like it’s a real thing in a way Kingdom of Loathing doesn’t have. If we had figured out some way to have navigation without a sort of map wouldn’t have been the same as Skyrim because of the 2 ½D environment. I think we made the right decision.
ZJ: It wound up working pretty much exactly how the map works in Wasteland 2. It was a Kickstarter for a game made in the 80s that came out 3 years ago. It’s got a very similar fixed number of locations but, it’s a bit like you move around on the map and as you get close to something, you’ll see it come up on the map rather than you’re on your way somewhere.
KS: It has this sort of environmental assessment thing that we didn’t do.
ZJ: Yeah like it would have these regions where it was too hot or too cold for you to go and we thought about that somewhere in development but then we decided not to mess with it.
NH: One of the things that really exemplified Kingdom of Loathing is this community which has kind of been with the game for all these years. How did they fit into the process and how was their reception to this sort of expansion?
KS: The marketplace on Steam is incredibly crowded right now and I don’t think that we would have been able to have nearly the level of success we’ve had if we weren’t able to mobilize our existing community of fans. Like to vote on Green Light when we did that or to buy the game or buy the game on the release date so we could hit the charts and get attention paid to us. It’s been really valuable to have them evangelize for us and tell their friends, “Hey remember that game I’ve been trying to get you to play on your web browser for the last ten years? They made a thing you’ll like better.” They tell their favorite streamers and we have access to beta testers. We’ve met so many good people through the KoL community and it’s been a really valuable resource for us.
NH: What are Your favorite parts of the game? Are there things players haven’t found yet?
ZJ: Nah, everything has been found at this point but, one puzzle that Rick buried real deep but that was found through data mining though, I think. What’s your favorite part of the game, Kevin?
KJ: I think Gary is probably my favorite part. He’s the partner that most people miss on their first playthrough because he’s sort of hidden. We wanted him to be someone you potentially found on your second playthrough. His writing is so strong and goblins are just really funny in the game.
ZJ: I think conceptually I like the detention gang with the fake camera that you have to trick them with? That’s really good.
NH: Alright, that’s it. Thanks so much for your time, guys.
If you want to find more about Kingdom of Loathing, West of Loathing or any of the other projects Assymetric has worked on, you can do so at their website: asymmetric.net. Kingdom of Loathing is available on your web browser and West of Loathing can be purchased through Steam.
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The Icon Monthly
The Icon Monthly Nov 2022 | Monetizing the News
Published
2 years agoon
November 3, 2022I want to make money; it’s a relatable statement. But how we go about making that money is a bit murky. We all (Hopefully) want to make money ethically and without exploiting anyone. There seems to be more ways to monetize our passions than ever. If you’re an artist, you can start a Patreon, use the Youtube Partner Program or create an NFT project.
Depending on who you ask, there are issues with all those options. Making money from your passion isn’t easy, and that goes for me here at The Icon. So how do I ethically monetize this site?
Websites like Bloomberg and Forbes charge you a subscription to read their articles. Which I think is fair. They’re often detailing breaking news stories that took time and years of collecting sources to produce.
But the problem with that is it puts news out of reach of people who don’t have money. Not that a subscription to Forbes is expensive, but if you can barely afford dinner, then subbing to a news site isn’t a priority. But no matter your financial situation, we all need to stay informed.
Additionally, it’s tough to get people to read news articles. Half the time, you’re lucky if people read past the article’s title on social media. Most of the time, at least with my site, people read the title and immediately comment or just read what other people are commenting. The problem with this is that it can aid find misinformation spreading on the internet. Still, when you lock information behind a paywall, that limits the number of people getting that information.
It’s a struggle to get people to click on the article, and getting people to pay to read it is much more challenging. This means people turn to people in the comments and other secondhand accounts to get the information.
On a related note, have you ever played the game ” Telephone?” You get a group of friends and whisper a phrase to one of them, and they’re supposed to whisper it to other people, and once it gets to the last person, you see how much the phrase has changed. Usually, the phrase has changed somewhat. That’s because most people can’t recall exactly what was told in the time it takes to hear the phrase and then repeat it. So the more people the information goes through, the more human error is filtered in.
Same with information on the internet; when we get information secondhand, the person’s biases and interpretation get filtered in, and god forbid, they’re an idiot. If you’re blocked access to the sources of information, you’re denied the ability to scrutinize the data for yourself and to form your own opinion.
*Obama voice* Let me be clear. I don’t think anything is wrong with Forbes and Bloomberg charging money. Still, I believe it puts up a wall that could potentially facilitate spreading of fake news by limiting access to information from people.
For instance, recently, there was a dispute between Platinum Games and the former voice actress for Bayonetta, Hellena Taylor. Hellena claimed Platinum Games only offered to pay her $4000 to voice the title character in Bayonetta 3. However, Paul Schreier of Bloomberg discovered that that wasn’t exactly true through documents and various sources.
He tweeted his article and said Hellena Taylor’s claims were misleading, which some people in the comments said he needed to provide proof. He did. The evidence was in his article, but it seemed most of the comment section hadn’t read it. There were a few who did who tried to explain what was happening. The problem with this is that it’s that person’s interpretation. The others who didn’t read the article were losing out on the ability to scrutinize the information for themselves.
Again Bloomberg is great, and their prices are more than reasonable. But writing something and putting it on social media is 50% hoping people read past the title, 45% defending yourself against people who didn’t read past the title and begging them to do so, and 5% wondering why you even bothered.
And as much as we hate tactics like clickbait, if it didn’t work, sites wouldn’t do it. We’ve all done it, given in curiosity, and clicked on a clickbait article. However, I think clickbait is a toxic practice and breaks the trust you’re trying to build with your readers.
With all this said, I wanted to devise a way to monetize The Icon while avoiding some of the pitfalls mentioned above. And remember, we’re not as big as Forbes or Bloomberg ( yet), so our founding needs aren’t as vast.
We will try to avoid pay walling content and instead offer optional ways to help fund us.
We’ll have to build trust with our audience, and that means giving them the information they need without clickbait and without adding a bunch of padding to the article. This means some articles might be short, or some information doesn’t need to be articles at all and will instead be a Twitter post. Posts will have critical information immediately at the beginning of the article. We want to keep you all moving forward, so we don’t want you scrolling for necessary information. We want you to get the information you need and decide if you want to keep going.
We’ll employ ads, but we’ll keep them from being intrusive, and additional funding options will be optional for those who enjoy our content and want to support us.
It’s easy to say all of this now. But creating something and making money from it has a slew of struggles, some I’ve spoken about and some I’m unaware of. So, we’ll see.
Video Games
Dealing with the Grief of Losing an Online Friend
Published
2 years agoon
October 6, 2022There’s still a bit of stigma about meeting people online. I remember people speaking in hushed voices as they said, “We met online,” when asked how they met their spouse. Not me, though. I don’t care what people think. #rebel.
But I have felt the awkward looks and questions when I’ve told them I met my fiancee on an online dating site. We’ve been together for seven years but yes, Karen, raise your eyebrow in surprise as I tell you we met online.
But those things were never the most challenging part about meeting people online. The hardest part was the distance. Sometimes we have online friends across the country; heck, some of us have friends across the world. So I thought distance and realizing someone you played with hadn’t logged in years was the worst part. But as I’ve gotten older, I realized something that’s even harder. And that losing a friend.
Recently a friend of mine passed away. We played Destiny 2 together. He and a group of us have saved the universe from the Cabal, raided for hours, suffered in Crucible, and he came to the rescue when I was stuck on that damn elevator in the corrupted strike.
But what’s more, we talked, shared life stories, and checked up on each other, and now he’s gone. His wife called us to let us know that he had passed because he spoke about us, and she knew he would want us to know. We impacted his life enough that his wife, whom we had never spoken to, knew who we were and reached out. That would make me feel special if I wasn’t so despondent about it.
But the problem with meeting people online is that you can’t just walk into the funeral when your friend has caught a bad case of death. Even if you do have the money, a lot of families aren’t going to think to invite Jason’s friend “NoobPWNr69.” Not many people are lucky enough to find out their friend has passed away. Many of us have to see they haven’t logged on in years and wonder what they’re up to. We imagine that life probably just got too busy. Sometimes ignorance is bliss. And sometimes you don’t find out until long after the person has passed.
But where does that leave us? The people they leave behind. As if it wasn’t bad enough that they had o go up and die, they leave us to deal with it. As if my therapist didn’t have enough to deal with.
I hate funerals; they’re kind of depressing; however, I think they’re essential in helping us get closure. So when online friends pass, we must find our own way to honor them.
Apparently, Online funerals are a thing. There’s an entire article on What’s your grief that details how to deal with the loss of a friend. In addition, they have some great suggestions that I plan on implementing.
One website suggests having an online memorial. Maybe a web page you and the rest of his online friends can leave comments on. I liked this idea because it gives you something to go back to and look at.
A New York Times article talks about how grief isn’t a problem to be solved but rather something to be lived through. The article even talks about ways to gently and appropriately reach out to your friend’s family.
But the main thing you should know when dealing with grief is that it’s okay. It’s okay that you missed them, and it’s okay to hurt. Friendships formed online are just as real and as special as the bounds you form in “real life,” and anyone who tells you any different probably never lost a friend they stayed up with until 3 am saving the galaxy.
One thing this ordeal has taught me is that losing an online friend has all sorts of difficulties, but I also discovered that there are all sorts of resources online to help. I’ve even linked some below.
If you take away one thing from this article other than I’m a snarky bitch that deals with his grief with humor, I hope it’s that it’s okay that you’re hurting and you don’t have to do it alone.
With that said, we at The Icon give losing a friend – infinity out of 5. Don’t recommend
Grieving an Online Friend: 8 things you should know
New York Times: How to Grieve for Online Friends You Had Never Met in Person
This is a post by the CDC about dealing with grief during COVID. I feel many steps would be suitable for losing an online friend.
Send me a message. I can relate.
Video Games
The Icon Monthly Oct 1st 2022 | Burnout in Video Games
Discussion about experiencing and overcoming burnout in video games.The Icon Monthly is a monthly letter from Editors that sest the tone for the month to come.
Published
2 years agoon
October 1, 2022In the mid-2000’s Xplay did a bit where they said Adam Sessler was leaving to do his own show called “Meet the Sess” with the tagline: “The fun Stops Here.” But, of course, Adam wasn’t going, and there was no show. It was a part of a bit which basic concept could be boiled down to “What if shows about video games were more like shows you’d see on CNN and Fox News?”
Ironically, over a decade later, I feel that’s precisely what many video game content creators, including myself, have done. Created content about video games that’s full of anger, contempt, and devoid of fun. But unlike Meet the Sess, this isn’t an April Fools Joke; there is no punchline.
I feel like so many of us wanted video games to be taken more seriously that we overcompensated and swung the pendulum in the other direction. Please make no mistake; I know how messed up the video game industry is. Rampant labor disputes, sexual harassment, corporate greed, and that’s not even mentioning issues of the games themselves, such as stagnation of content, an overabundance of microtransactions, and major corporations buying every studio they can.
These issues shouldn’t be ignored, and I think they need to be focused on more. I think looking at the industry through rose-colored glasses and not talking about serious issues is a problem in the community.
But for me, there needs to be a balance. So we have room to talk about serious issues that face the community while remembering that video games are meant to be fun.
Everything doesn’t need to be so serious all the time. Yes, talking about crunch in the industry needs to be handled with care, but that same type of tone doesn’t need to be carried over to, let’s say, a review of Pokemon Snap.
I believe video games can capture the feeling of whimsy better than any other art form. Yet, I noticed all my content, whether it be video or article, was handled with an air of deadly seriousness.
Eventually, I went over a year without posting. Then it hit me. I fell victim to something you always hear about in the news but never think it’ll happen to you. Burnout.
And not just with video games but with technology too. Yes, these industries have their issues, but there are bright spots too. Bright spots I lost the ability to see.
But I’m not here to blame this on a toxic industry or communities. As a journalist, my job is to tell stories from all over the community, good and bad. I also have to remember just how big the video game industry is. Some indie companies are taking strides to fix the problems that a lot of the bigger companies have cultivated. There’s innovation and creativity abound out there. There are good people and fun to be had in the big industry and in indie games.
I think that’s the point of video games, to spread joy, and in turn, I want to try to spread joy by talking about it. So I want to talk about and discuss the bad things while also leaving room for the good.
After all, even something like politics that has implications that affect all of our lives has shows like The Dailey Show and the Colbert Report.
I want to take a lighter tone and focus more on the positivity in the community, even if I have to search for it. But the bright side, I don’t think I’ll need to search for it hard.
Ironically now that I’m leaving my burnout, I realized I just burned out I was and for how long.
It even showed in our logo.
Just words, not that different from CNN or Fox News. I wasn’t happy talking about games, and it showed.
With all that said, where do I go from here? I’m now taking precautions to keep myself from burning out. I’m not going to try to emulate some misguided idea of what talking about video games should be because teenage me was so desperate to have video games taken seriously.
Instead, I’m going to be ok taking breaks from talking about video games and taking time actually to play them and, if I’m lucky, actually enjoy them.
Video Games and technology are still fun; even though I lost sight of that for a while, I want to focus myself and The Icon on that in the future.
And to anyone experiencing burnout, please remember it’s ok to take breaks; if you’re able to, you should. Hopefully, with time maybe your joy can find you again too.
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